Holy Wood Interviews

Rock Sound
Marilyn explains how the tryptic differs on the three albums, how the media encouraged him to write Holywood and the controversial art that is always on his album covers.
Marilyn Manson
2001 Jan
Marilyn Manson: Revolution in Action

Creative genius, God of Fuck, Marilyn Manson has been called many things. In the wake of his UK touring triumph, Rock Sound tackled one of rock's most interesting and misunderstood characters...

With the release of íHoly Wood...' in November 2000, the colossal propaganda machine that is Marilyn Manson continued to cause controversy at every opportunity. If itís not the cover and imagery from his latest album or the wild on-stage antics of his traveling circus of horrors, itís taking the blame for every murder, mug-ging or cat-napping that happens Stateside. Striking terror among the God-fearing population of this pla-net, who believe Manson to be the Antichrist, heís managed to upset nearly every religious group this side of Mars. Is Manson simply misunderstood or is he hatching a deeper, darker plan for world domina-tion? With the country still recovering from the Guns, God And Government tour. Mansonís first UK shows since Ď99ís Big Day Out appearance, we talk to the mainman about his quest for a rock revolution.

Rock Sound:
Rock albums with concepts are often compared with the all-time classic albums - Pink Floydís ĎThe Wallí and The Beatlesí so Called ĎWhite Albumí. Discuss.
Marilyn Manson:
I think that a lot of my records are inspired by ĎThe Wallí because it was such an important record to me. I think whenever you try and do a record with a bit of a story, ĎThe Wallí is the best example, so itís the on you have to stand up against. As for ĎThe White Albumí, when it came out it was important for Th Beatlesí career as they were doing something completely different for them. There were a lot of revolutionary elements to it, a lot of ironic things happened with the songs on that album. ĎHelter Skelter was blamed for the Manson murders, and I identified with what was happening with John Lennon -and the album came out the year I was born, too!
Rock Sound:
Compared to your previous outings, ĎHoly Wood...í has a very cinematic feel to it, is this something you consciously decided to do?
Marilyn Manson:
I think I made a very concerted effort to use the music in a cinematic way, yes. The dynamics are much more thought out than a in any other record we've done. Heavy music is very fashion-able, especially among American bands, but it's about using it in a classic and tasteful way, and that's why with ĎHoly Wood' it's heavy and has an impact, and when it's not heavy it also has relevance.
Rock Sound:
There also seems to be more to the album musically, rather than just concentrating on the lyrics this time around.
Marilyn Manson:
If you were to do something as planned-out lyrically as 'The Wall' I think you'd run into a territory that becomes almost self indulgent. I wanted people to listen to this album song by song and still appreciate the songs on there. I hinted at more of the story rather than spelling it out - this record fuses the other two together and it gives you a better picture of how they all play among one another.
Rock Sound:
Holy Wood..í is probably your darkest album to date. Is this an illusion?
Marilyn Manson:
Violence is the central subject of the record, but musically and lyrically it's not as violent as ĎAntichrist Superstarí. That was emotionless and cold and very nihilistic - almost one-sided. It was just hell-bent on destruction, whereas ĎMechanical Animalsí was more in a different part of my personality. This one, I had the benefit of both emotions and that rage because Columbine reignited a fire in me. The media trying to destroy me brought hack a lot of feelings of disillusionment. When it is violent or angry, I think it's much more effective, thereís more emotion behind it. Itís not just empty anger, it's very powerful.
Rock Sound:
There seems to be an underlying concept of trying to create revolution and yet that revolution in turn just becomes a product.
Marilyn Manson:
My music is very much autobiographical. ĎAntichrist Superstar' was inspired by dreams - dreams of seeing myself in a position of having power and being frightened to have that power destroy me. I felt like personally and musically that story was not over for me, I needed to put myself through extreme measures to push myself to see what would happen next, and musically I felt it would be very interesting to tell the story over the course of three records. Not that I could do that with ĎMechanical Animals', so when I finished that at the end of Ď99, when the media was attacking me over Columbine, it was the point that I dreamed of during 'Antichrist Superstar'. I was at that fucking point so I had to destroy what I was and resurrect myself by making 'HoIy Wood...', and that became the end of my creation. At the same time, it was the beginning of the story - so it was kinda like a snake that ends on its tail! If I couldn't have made this record I would have probably not made music any more. I donít know what would have happened but I took all the negativity that was laid upon me and made it something positive by making this album. Some people didn't understand all of my ideas, people just wanted to turn it into another product, and I saw that coming so I was making a sarcastic comment on it.
Rock Sound:
The album appears to end in tragedy is this really the case?
Marilyn Manson:
It can be looked at like that if you want to take it literally, but itís not so much killing yourself but killing everything you represent. In one way it is a tragedy and in another way it hopes that there is rebirth and resurrection and the ability to shed your skin and be something new. Tragic elements in life can often be a source of great inspiration. Throughout history there have been people who have made a massive impact on the world. Christ, John F Kennedy, John Lennon. In what ways do you consider yourself to be in the same league as these people?
Marilyn Manson:
Iíve never felt like that. I think it would be pretentious of me to put myself up there with Christ, Kennedy and Lennon. What I did find was parallels in their stories and my story, and I tried to maybe learn from their mistakes and what they tried to do. If you take ĎHoly Wood...' as some thing on its own and disregard the other records, I think itís simple. You realize you canít change the world and you can only change yourself and I think that's what Christ Kennedy and Lennon found out. For me it was about learning from that and trying to break the evolution of man. It's man's nature to be violent.
Rock Sound:
To what extent to you consider Eminem to be the equivalent of Marilyn Manson in the rap world? After all, heís shocking and provocative...
Marilyn Manson:
One thing that I would credit Eminem's success to, more than just him being shocking, is that I think heís actually talented. The songs are offensive butt they are very clever and well done and I think he wouldnít have had a successful second record if he wasnít good at it. I donít think itís as important to agree with or enjoy his opinions as it is to respect the fact that he has strong opinions. Thatís what I like about him, he has the balls to say and do what he wants. Itís also good to see someone else taking the hits that I have in the past, because very few people can do that. There are elements of what he is saying that I can agree with or sympathies with - while youíre in the position of being a star people often donít respect your privacy, but thatís something you have to sacrifice. For me, after being attacked by everyone I felt that no one was on my side - only the fans stuck by me. Everyone wanted to see me fail and take a fall for something I wasnít really responsible for, so Iíve gained a new sense of enthusiasm and a real respect for... just little things. I donít take anything for granted - every single person that tells me they like the record, which I am very thankful for. But I am not pandering to or catering for people or trying to pretend that I like the fans so they will buy more records or I-shirts - Iím just thankful that they have stuck by me. I feel weíre on the same team.
Rock Sound:
In what ways do you consider you are perceived as a dictator on stage?
Marilyn Manson:
You have to look at the big picture. I was making fun of fascism and what fascism is and to me that was a statement of what rock Ďní roll is - rock Ďní roll was just as bad as what it was fighting against. The big picture is standing back and thinking about it, itís performance art in a way. Iím not exploiting something, but itís making people part of something. Whether or not they realize what Iím doing is irrelevant, it's the fact that itís happening.
Rock Sound:
Do you read books on social manipulation?
Marilyn Manson:
Not really. Iíve read a lot of things, particularly about symbolism, and crowd manipulation goes back to Julius Caesar - when he raised his hand, the crowd reacted in a certain way. It can be very powerful, itís a magical thing to happen between a performer and a leader. But you have to understand it and appreciate it and know how to use it, and a lot of people don't and it's very dangerous. Woodstock Ď99 was a good example, there were bands antagonizing the crowd in a way they couldn't control so it turned into a catastrophe. Reality sets things apart when youíre in a situation like that. Itís not manipulated, it's about creating a tornado inside a building and being able to keep it from tearing the walls down. Controlled chaos is what it is, and I understand that.
Rock Sound:
How do you convince someone you're sincere in your actions?
Marilyn Manson:
I donít feel the need to convince anyone. A lot of the time, what I do speaks for itself and, whether it creates hate or love, I value both equally. I donít feel the need to sell myself - sometimes Iím very insincere. Obviously there is a lot of sarcasm in what I do and I donít take myself completely seriously because if you do you become a parody. But at the same time, I believe in what I do.
Rock Sound:
The album sleeve for ĎHoly Wood...í has predictably created much controversy. What's your view on this?
Marilyn Manson:
American people have very poor sense of irony! I am pleased at the response because my point in showing myself on the cover with my face combined with the statue of Christ is to say that as much as it is entertainment, the image can be seen as violent and sexual and people said it was offensive and censored it and that proved my point. I have always tried to fight against religion and disregard it. On this record I tried to look at it in a different way. Iím just trying to talk about evolution and why man behaves the way he does and just go back to the beginning and look at the story of Christ in a different way. I can say that Christ was the first celebrity and all entertainment stems from religion and all region exploits merchandise. Jesus was the first famous person, he ended up dying for having a dangerous opinion. Now thatís a character I can relate to - for me itís about always having an open mind and looking at something in a different way.
Rock Sound:
Why do you always feel the need to be provocative. Doesnít it feel a little passť?
Marilyn Manson:
Being provocative is second nature to me, but I do try and push people to re-evaluate what they believe in and question why they believe in those things.
Rock Sound:
Youíre constantly in the limelight - for better or for worse - but youíre always creating. Donít you ever let up?
Marilyn Manson:
Obviously I donít want people to forget about me, but itís more the need to be always creating, being able to paint, write a song, make a video or whatever. Itís the one thing that really makes me happy, so I just have to do it. I wouldnít say Iím a workaholic, because I donít consider what I do as work as such, it's just what I am. I'm not the kind of person who can deal with having time off.